<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.2.1" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Tensor Products</title>
	<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26</link>
	<description>Thoughts on mathematics, physics and other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-206</link>
		<author>Sacha</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-206</guid>
		<description>Actually, for consistency I should write a column vector as

v&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt;

and the action of the matrix A on v&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt; as

a&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;i&lt;/sub&gt; v&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;  (assuming the summation convention).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, for consistency I should write a column vector as</p>
<p>v<sup>i</sup></p>
<p>and the action of the matrix A on v<sup>i</sup> as</p>
<p>a<sup>j</sup><sub>i</sub> v<sup>j</sup>  (assuming the summation convention).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-205</link>
		<author>Sacha</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-205</guid>
		<description>Hi Tel,

Re: your para 'If you define your matrix as A = a&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt;, then the upper index is indicating the row number and the lower the column number. For a vector, which has n rows but only one column, the index should go in the upstairs location for consistency v = v&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;.'

I agree - this makes more sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tel,</p>
<p>Re: your para &#8216;If you define your matrix as A = a<sup>i</sup><sub>j</sub>, then the upper index is indicating the row number and the lower the column number. For a vector, which has n rows but only one column, the index should go in the upstairs location for consistency v = v<sup>j</sup>.&#8217;</p>
<p>I agree - this makes more sense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-202</link>
		<author>Sacha</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 05:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-202</guid>
		<description>Yes, writing A v&lt;sub&gt;i&lt;/sub&gt; as

a&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;i&lt;/sub&gt; v&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt;

(assuming the summation convention) seems more straightforward to me. Employing upper and lower indices makes it much easier to keep a grip on summations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, writing A v<sub>i</sub> as</p>
<p>a<sup>j</sup><sub>i</sub> v<sub>j</sub></p>
<p>(assuming the summation convention) seems more straightforward to me. Employing upper and lower indices makes it much easier to keep a grip on summations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tel</title>
		<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-201</link>
		<author>Tel</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Hi Sach,

This notation is common in differential geometry and hence relativity (and hence Penrose).

Depending on what I'm doing I usually write a&lt;sub&gt;ij&lt;/sub&gt; or a&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt;. For a lot of things the latter is more natural. (Especially when working with quantum doubles). 

If you define your matrix as A = a&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt;, then the upper index is indicating the row number and the lower the column number. For a vector, which has n rows but only one column, the index should go in the upstairs location for consistency v = v&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;. The transformation equation then becomes

v'&#160;&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt; = a&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt;v&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;,

where we've followed Einstein's summation convention of summing over dummy indices (provided one index is in the floor and the other index is in the ceiling).

So, what's v&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt; I hear you ask ? Well, it's an element of the dual space, a co-vector or 1-form. Skipping a lot of details (and precision), the two are related by the Kronecker delta which we use to change vectors into co-vectors and vice versa
 
 v&lt;sub&gt;i&lt;/sub&gt;=&#948;&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt;v&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;.

Maybe you've had a sneaking suspicion all along about the transpose of a column vector :).
 
(Drinfeld's quantum double combines a Hopf algebra H (actually H&lt;sup&gt;Cop&lt;/sup&gt;) with its dual H&lt;sup&gt;*&lt;/sup&gt; to create a new Hopf algebra which is always quasi-triangular.)

Tel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sach,</p>
<p>This notation is common in differential geometry and hence relativity (and hence Penrose).</p>
<p>Depending on what I&#8217;m doing I usually write a<sub>ij</sub> or a<sup>i</sup><sub>j</sub>. For a lot of things the latter is more natural. (Especially when working with quantum doubles). </p>
<p>If you define your matrix as A = a<sup>i</sup><sub>j</sub>, then the upper index is indicating the row number and the lower the column number. For a vector, which has n rows but only one column, the index should go in the upstairs location for consistency v = v<sup>j</sup>. The transformation equation then becomes</p>
<p>v&#8217;&nbsp;<sup>i</sup> = a<sup>i</sup><sub>j</sub>v<sup>j</sup>,</p>
<p>where we&#8217;ve followed Einstein&#8217;s summation convention of summing over dummy indices (provided one index is in the floor and the other index is in the ceiling).</p>
<p>So, what&#8217;s v<sub>j</sub> I hear you ask ? Well, it&#8217;s an element of the dual space, a co-vector or 1-form. Skipping a lot of details (and precision), the two are related by the Kronecker delta which we use to change vectors into co-vectors and vice versa</p>
<p> v<sub>i</sub>=&delta;<sup>i</sup><sub>j</sub>v<sup>j</sup>.</p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;ve had a sneaking suspicion all along about the transpose of a column vector :).</p>
<p>(Drinfeld&#8217;s quantum double combines a Hopf algebra H (actually H<sup>Cop</sup>) with its dual H<sup>*</sup> to create a new Hopf algebra which is always quasi-triangular.)</p>
<p>Tel</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-200</link>
		<author>Sacha</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Hi Tel,

Hey, like you, I write the components of a matrix A as a&lt;sub&gt;ij&lt;/sub&gt; where i is the row and j is the column.

Now, in Penrose's tome, he writes it as a&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;i&lt;/sup&gt;. Do you know if this common physicists notation?

When I invented my own tensor notation, I wrote the action of the matrix A on a basis vector v&lt;sub&gt;i&lt;/sub&gt; as 
a&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;i&lt;/sub&gt;v&lt;sub&gt;j&lt;/sub&gt; (assuming the summation convention), but in Penrose's scheme, it is
a&lt;sub&gt;i&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;v&lt;sup&gt;j&lt;/sup&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tel,</p>
<p>Hey, like you, I write the components of a matrix A as a<sub>ij</sub> where i is the row and j is the column.</p>
<p>Now, in Penrose&#8217;s tome, he writes it as a<sub>j</sub><sup>i</sup>. Do you know if this common physicists notation?</p>
<p>When I invented my own tensor notation, I wrote the action of the matrix A on a basis vector v<sub>i</sub> as<br />
a<sup>j</sup><sub>i</sub>v<sub>j</sub> (assuming the summation convention), but in Penrose&#8217;s scheme, it is<br />
a<sub>i</sub><sup>j</sup>v<sup>j</sup>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha Blumen</title>
		<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-184</link>
		<author>Sacha Blumen</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 03:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-184</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I should have said "is dependent on the ordering of the basis vector of V \otimes W you choose"  :-)

Cheers,
Sach</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I should have said &#8220;is dependent on the ordering of the basis vector of V \otimes W you choose&#8221;  <img src='http://mathphysics.net/tel/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Sach</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-183</link>
		<author>Sacha</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 02:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mathphysics.net/tel/archives/26#comment-183</guid>
		<description>Hey Tel,

Hey, the definition of the tensor product of two matrices V and W is dependent on the basis of V \otimes W you choose, isn't it? Ok, you're implicitly choosing the basis in writing out V \otimes W. The way I've always dealt with it is just to be really clear about which basis I'm using. You know, I never actually learnt that "the definition of V \otimes W is..." I just worked it out myself!

Cheers,
Sach</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tel,</p>
<p>Hey, the definition of the tensor product of two matrices V and W is dependent on the basis of V \otimes W you choose, isn&#8217;t it? Ok, you&#8217;re implicitly choosing the basis in writing out V \otimes W. The way I&#8217;ve always dealt with it is just to be really clear about which basis I&#8217;m using. You know, I never actually learnt that &#8220;the definition of V \otimes W is&#8230;&#8221; I just worked it out myself!</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Sach</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
